PC problems

[Hathor]

Ok, so everytime i hit my power button, I here my pc fan come on, then 2 seconds later, it shuts down again. i do this 4-5 times, then it finally comes all the way on. This has been going on for a few days now. This morning I had the same problem, only now when i try to get on LotRO, when the big logo hits the screen, it gets all weird (lines across the entire scren, sometimes turning into black and white checkers) and freezes up. Can someone tell me whats wrong, can i fix it myself, and what i need to buy?

[Staniel]

Could be several different problems:


Overheating CPU

clean the CPU fan (just open the case up and take some canned air to it, or blow in it real hard, but make sure you clear your mouth of saliva as much as possible before you blast it if you do that)
add thermal paste to the CPU (open the case, get the fan off of the CPU, and put the paste on the contact area; depending on how the fan is attached to the board, this could require some fiddling with levers and stuff)
use a program of some kind to force the CPU fan to run harder. I've never done this for CPU fans, only GPU fans, so I'm not sure what to tell you as far as which program to use - someone else might know

Overheating video card, or video card going bad

use something like RivaTuner (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guru3d.com%2Fcategory%2Frivat uner%2F&ei=g8gaSpfwLKWaMr7ooZYP&rct=j&q=rivatuner&usg=AFQjCNFwkUzVm2vXoAvCW1qBuMWPHXNoDw) to make the GPU fan run harder - I'm not sure what your card is though so it may not work for you
blast the dust out of the video card
reseat the video card (just take it out of its slot and put it back in nice and firm)
reseat any connectors/cables associated with the video card; careful, some things may strongly resist being pulled out, make sure that if you've got something resisting you that it's not being held in by any levers or anything else that might break
if you have any spare video cards, try those in the box and see if you get the same results - if you do, then something is wrong with the rest of the box, if you don't, then it's most likely the video card itself

[Tovaxx]

Like stan said it is prob overheating.

Get some canned air, open the case up, clean that sucker out. Be careful spraying any fans though. Make sure to put a toothpick or pencil (anything really) in the fan blades to stop it from spinning while you blow air through it. The air will cause the fan to spin faster than it typically would and can cause issues with the bearings. The end result is sometimes that you are left with a really effin annoying sounding fan when you are done. Give that a whirl and get back to us. (whirl, get it?, lolpun)

[Hathor]

Thanks Stan and Vaxx :) Just finished cleaning out the dust (and their was definately ALOT!) from my PC. It sounds hella-better than it did before. After a quick shower and a couple hotdogs from the grill. I'll try to log-on. You 2 are the best :) cya in-game (hopefully)

[Helori]

Fans are cheap to replace, but your system is not, so if you cannot get it to reliably work with a cleaning go get a new fan, OR open the case and blow a typical floor fan on it (I have had to do this in the summertime even with good fans).

Canned air is .... well, there is a word for the guy the spends money on a can of air, I think its "sucker". Put the hose to your vacume in the outtake (normally, its in the intake) and you got a first class air blowing device.

[Hathor]

Fans are cheap to replace, but your system is not, so if you cannot get it to reliably work with a cleaning go get a new fan, OR open the case and blow a typical floor fan on it (I have had to do this in the summertime even with good fans).

Canned air is .... well, there is a word for the guy the spends money on a can of air, I think its "sucker". Put the hose to your vacume in the outtake (normally, its in the intake) and you got a first class air blowing device.

Im an office manager... i get that stuff for free ;) And its hella-hot in here, and i dont use an AC (i love the heat) so i am now using a floor fan to help. It's much better... thanks to you all.

[Hathor]

Ok... so its not much better. I couldnt get back on last night because the stupid pc took forever to start (its like a chainsaw.... pull the cord, it tries to start but doesnt, after a bunch of attepts, it finally comes on.) But when i did finally get it on, when i tried to load LotRO, it froze on me... the screen got all weird (black and white checkered boxes... various other forms of abstract art) so i got mad and didnt try anymore.

I spoke to the I.T. guy here at work, and the guy that built it for me. I told them both what you told me to do, and what happened afterwards. The I.T. guy said to re-seat the vid. card (something i forgot to do yesterday). He said to check to see if theres any discoloration on the card, and if there is, to gently clean it off with alcohol (im assuming rubbing alcohol, not vodka) He said i should guy the exact same vid. card i have and try it. If the Vid card is bad, i have a replacement, if its not, then i can use them both since its SLI something. If its not that, then he said the power supplies going bad and id need a new one, and to not do that myself, let a pro do it.

The guy that built it for me said to call him when i get home. He wants me to open it up and try to turn it on. He wants to see if the fans are running for the 4 seconds it is on. He doesnt think its the Vid card because, according to him, that wouldnt stop it from starting. He's leaning towards power supply though he finds that strange because its 650W (whatever that means)

This is what my pc's made of:


*
o 1 x BELKIN F5D5005 10/ 100/ 1000Mbps PCI Gigabit Desktop Network Card - Retail

o 1 x Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack 2
*
*
o 1 x AMD Athlon 64 FX-62 Windsor 2.8GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor Model ADAFX62CSBOX
*
o 1 x NEC Display Solutions LCD2090UXi-BK Black 20.1" 16ms LCD Monitor
*
o 1 x ASUS CROSSHAIR AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard

o 1 x AMD Athlon 64 FX-74 Windsor 3.0GHz Socket F (1207 FX) 125W Dual-Core Processor Model ADAFX74DIBOX

o 2 x OCZ S.O.E 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model OCZ2SOE8001G

o 3 x Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10000 RPM SATA 1.5Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive - OEM

o 1 x Logitech G7 Black 6 Buttons Tilt Wheel USB RF Wireless Laser Mouse

o 1 x Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card

o 1 x PLANTRONICS GAMECOMPRO1 USB Circumaural Gaming Stereo Headset

o 1 x PLEXTOR 18X DVD±R DVD Burner included Replaceable beige front bezel Black E-IDE/ATAPI Model PX-760A/SW-BL

o 1 x Thermaltake Toughpower W0128RU 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready Modular Active PFC Power Supply

o 1 x ASUS EN8800GTX/HTDP/768M GeForce 8800 GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

o 1 x LIAN LI PC-G70B Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case
*
o 1 x Logitech Classic Black PS/2 Wired Standard Keyboard

[Aurilius]

I am really no expert on computers but you seem to be having similar problems as I was. My video cards were definitely one of the culprits. Thankfully I had dual video cards so I just had it replaced with the back up video card. But then there is also a danger of it affecting you motherboard too. And if that happens you might as well get a new computer built while salvaging whatever things you can from your old computer (monitor, keyboard, etc.).

Anyway hopefully just replacing your video card will work (which i think it will). If that fails I would just consider getting a new comp because I don't think it's the power supply.

P.S. I also sincerely believe that by playing LOTRO alot, it puts a big toll on your video cards especially in the heat you play in. My situation was eerily similar to yours so I feel like i can comment.

[Tovaxx]

What's going on is that your system BIOS has a safeguard built in which will turn the system off in the event of overheating. Likewise a short in circuitry will cause the system to power off as well. The checked pattern is likely direct3D or another generation of the same tech. The combination of the above indicates an issue with the video card as your coworker indicated (power short in circuit + direct3D issues). As you mentioned it being a 650W PS, it is unlikely that your are overdrawing power (which can cause similar sporadic issues).

Best bet is to follow your buddy's advice, he is spot on. There is a lot more you could do if this does not work in terms of hardware issue diagnosis. It is however a bit more involved and perhaps better be done by someone who knows a bit more about the methodology.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Hathor]

Now for an update:

The guy in the small PC shop on Staten Island said both my power supply and my Graphics card were bad. At first I didnt believe him, and planned to take my baby to Best Buy for another opinion... but i dont drive, and didnt have a ride this weekend. I spent THE ENTIRE WEEKEND without my therapy substitute! I had to check my browser based game accounts on my G1 (which is an awesome phone btw), watching shows stored on my DVR (i did catch up on The Tudors, Dollhouse, and The Deadliest Warrior) and playing my 360. Everytime I looked at the spot where my pc shouldve been, i almost had a panic attack.

So, today, i went out and bought another 650w power supply (thats the best they had) and a NVidia GeForce 9800GT 1gb GDDR3 graphics card... the guy at Best buy swore it was better than what i had. So, i hope to install this stuff... well, pay to get it installed, then play play play!!!

I missed alot of good stuff this week. Congrats on the watcher beatdown, and to those that battled in the Kumite.

[Aurilius]

We miss you Hathor. Come back soon.

[Tovaxx]

In the future, don't buy PC parts at best buy. They rape you in the cost department.

http://www.newegg.com
http://www.tigerdirect.com
http://www.techbargains.com

Use those to pricecheck items and call around to local shops, or front the cash for overnight, usually it is cheaper just to overnight anyways.

[Bobion]

Mmmm...newegg.

I built my entire rig from newegg. No problems, works beautifully.

[Hathor]

And the madness continues:

So I took this moron the 2 new parts i bought on Monday. He calls me yesterday and tells me It fooled him. It was actually a short in the motherboard, and the 2 new peices i just bought are now KFC. He then says I should take the stuff back to best buy and get new ones. I told him if they dont take them back, he has to replace them. He says its not his responsibility

So, i started to think this guy is either a complete idiot, or he's hustling me. So i over-reacted a little. I explained to him that denying me my money for a mistake he made would be an even bigger mistake that would lead to a coin flip where heads is coma, and tails is a wheelchair.

My cousin, in an effort to keep the peace, went to the guys shop and spoke to him. Turns out that the new power supply is fine. The fake-tech also agreed to pay for the card if best buy didnt take it back. (which thankfully, they did)

Tomorrow, im bringing my pc to the city, and will let either the geek-squad at best buy, or the staples pc repair guys look at it. I prefer dealing with big companies because if they screw something up, they wont have a problem with replacing anything.

Now, i just started reading an A+ certification prep book. From what i know (which is limited) shouldnt this guy, if he ran a diagnostic, know what the problem is? Is it reasonable that he assumed it was the power supply and G-card? I still think he was trying to get me to pay for lots of stuff. Now he gets nothing.

[Helori]

No, the guy may have made an honest mistake. I mean, hes not with best buy or another company, so getting you to buy more stuff from someone else is not helping him at all, so I would say he just made a fairly honest mistake.

Its actually hard to diagnose a problem with the PC will not even post (posting is the motherboard getting power and getting past its initial operations and reaching the point where bios kicks in). Before that point, the problem could be anything from a rat chewing up your power cord to a crack in the CPU and anything in between .... its pre computer diagnostics at that point and off in the realm of electrical engineering or computer engineering/ hardware. So he took a guess at the most likely issues. He should, however, have extra stuff laying around. He should have been able to put in an old/cheap video card and eliminate that from the problems, swap in a new power supply and eliminate that, and so on. Odds are, he is not very skilled but odds also are that he meant no harm and simply made a mistake (basically, he guessed at the problem to your expense).


The guys at the geek squad know less about computers than whistler's mom, and are probably no more reliable than this guy, if the truth were told. They have a computer program that they can follow a decision tree / flowchart on, and that tells them what to try when fixing a machine. Once in a blue moon one of the guys might be skilled but most are teens with zero skill who are just following directions in hopes of fixing an issue. They are best avoided, the only thing they really know how to do is install new hardware and remove the spyware that came installed on their pcs, if you bought one of them.

[Hathor]

Sounds like im screwed no matter what i do :(

[Tovaxx]

The guy probably isn't that great of a tech. Those of us that know wtf we are doing usually have test bench machines. Diagnostics programs usually mean jack and shit unless you are testing for things like memory leaks, hdd issues, heat issues, etc. If the machine wont turn on, you cant run an app on it.

If he were smart he would have had a machine with a known functional mobo in it, plugged every bit of hardware from yours into it ( a good tech can assemble that crap in under 10 mins) and booted it with a portable OS. From there you eliminate one of the biggest issues by testing literally everything but your power supply. Moving forward you swap in the power supply from the old machine and Bam you just tested the two biggest points of failure. Most of the time you can solve non posting problems with that setup.

At any rate, prepare to be raped by the fools at best buy. They are expensive, but they are insured. This is good when you have a machine frying cards... Also make sure you ask to see proof of certification from techs. Unless it is a friend you know has ridic "skillz", any real tech is going to be toting at least an A+ and MCDST. It's fun to ask if they have any of these certs before challenging asking for proof, it helps weed out the hustler types. (and no, not the hustler sexy ladies, we all know nerds get none of that). My point is to find a tech you can trust and work with them exclusively. The work is alot like that of a mechanic and you need to find one you can trust to not rip you off for hardware and ridic labor costs. Some independent techs will let you watch while they work on your machine too if you ask.

PS - LOL at threatening the guy. Way to go crackhead style ./scratchneck "I NEED MY LOTRO FIX OR I BREAKA-YOU-FACE"


btw -- my guess at this point is that your PCI-E BUS is screwed. (Were you using some method of overclocking app with the old card?) Since you said it was a xfire/sli card you could try to flip the vid card into the alternate pci-e slot and modify which is the master in BIOS if you can get it to post that long. That is assuming the short is related to just the socket for the card and not the actual BUS itself. Not all cards have this option though and not all cards require it, some are PnP autodetect. My guess is that you may be SOL and have to get a new mobo too. Unless an extreme amount of force is applied, it is very difficult to damage the actual sockets where you seat the cards to the point of crossing circuits and frying them. The more likely situation is that the entire BUS is nuked.


If you want to test the motherboard you can do the following:

1) Unplug every bit of silicon except the processor. (RAM, Vid Cards, Sound Cards, Anything that plugs into it that isnt power or processor basically)

2) Plug it back in with just mouse, keyboard, power, and dvi/dsub connection to the onboard video. If it stays on long enough to post (show the BIOS text and options) it is a short in your Frontside or Backside BUS.

3) Power the machine back on with RAM in it, if it stays on long enough to post and register the RAM it's not your FSB (frontsidebus).

4) Add the HDD back into the situation, same scenario as step 3.

5) Last but not least add third party vid card back into the scenario... this will more than likely be where this process fails. It will also conclusively tell you that its the BUS or Vid card (which seems to already have been determined. It is also where a good tech will pre-test the vid card in another machine to eliminate the final "what if" factor in this scenario)

[Hathor]

Time for yet another update in my personal soap-opera:

So Thursday I get up extra early to lug this pc to the city... IN THE RAIN!! I wrap it up as best i could, and head out. Once im in Manhattan, I let the I.T. guy at my job take a quick look at it. He discovers that one of the wires on the case fan was popped. According to him, that is what probably started all of this.

Now, like a moron, I go to staples first and get sucked into there 50% off on all tech work deal. The guy SOUNDED like he knew what he was doing, but i discovered later on how much of a screwup he was. He told me i needed a new mother board. Fine, I run to DataVision and get one. At this point im at +2 hope because i was sure he was my savior, and id be on my beloved game by Friday. What happens the next day? +5 dread! He said its still not working!! I say, well, what else could it be? He says "i dont know". He had no clue! Next stop, Best Buy.

I go to the geek-squad and explained everything thats happened up untill i walked into there door. They popped it open and noticed some kind of loop thingy (i have no idea what they were talking about) He said i needed to get a new processor. I say, "no problem"... run to DataVision, bought a new processor, run back. Now here is where Staples proves there incompetence, and why they may lose the 100's of thousands of dollars I spend on there supplies via the company i work for.

1- when the geeksqaud guy went to put in the new processor, he discovered that they didnt put the old one in. The put the heat-synch on without the processor.

2- they had a fan plugged into a spot it didnt belong.

3- not sure what its called, but they plugged a wire from one spot on the motherboard, to another spot on the motherboard.

The Bestbuy guy (who has A+ cert. and has been doing this for 13 years) said any of those 3 things couldve screwed up the new MB. He said he would feel better taking it apart and re-building it so he knows its done right. So i get a call Saturday from him saying its still not working right, and its probably the MB again. Unfortunately, he's out today, so tomorrow ill return the motherboard for another. If thats not the problem, then i really dont know what else it could be. So far I've:

Replaced - 650W power supply
With - 850W power supply

Replaced - Geforce 8800 gtx graphics card
With - Geforce 9800 gt graphics card

Replaced - AM2 Nvidia nforce 590 sli mcp atx amd motherboard
With - M3N72-D amd motherboard

Replaced - amd athlon 64 fx-74 3.0 ghz dual-core processor
With - Phenom x4 quad-core 9950 2.6ghz processor

[Aurilius]

Holy crap Hathor. I am so glad I found myself a great personal computer tech that is relatively cheap and very friendly. I trust him 100% with everything and he has not steered me wrong yet. After hearing about your trials, I will never let him go.

May want to just buy a new computer if this next experiment fails.

[Packllama]

I'm a little behind on the posts but wow... the Staples guy did not put the processor back in but put the fan back on? I'm hoping you confronted them about this and got the processor back and keep them in the loop in case you need to go back to them for damaging your board. They need to know how blatently horrible their service is. It's possible, although unlikely, that the motherboard would be fried because of plugging the fan into the wrong location, but I guess I don't know where they plugged it into!

Is this still the same problem as your original post? Stan's reply was spot on with the overheating problem. Did Best Buy say what it is doing now? Are you getting anything at all when the power button is pressed (lights, fans, noise)?

Best Buy should absolutely have a test motherboard for your AMD processor they should be able to see if it at least boots up if they use your processor and memory in that test board. You should ask about that before they require you to purchase something else.

Good luck. I wish I were in the area to help you out.

[Hathor]

Its actually a new problem. It gets stuck at some screen when it comes on. Actually, the FIRST new problem was no video, but that stopped... i think. All i want to do is show up tomorrow with the new Motherboard, leave, come back when its time to go home, and pick up my improved PC.

Hmm, i was also told by the GS guy that i should re-install windows xp. The problem is i cant find my disk, which has my activation numbers and all that good stuff :(

[Staniel]

Goodness. I had no idea that tech workers at stores could be so incompetent! Seriously dude, I don't know where you live, but if you live anywhere close to southwestern Ohio, my dad and I would be totally willing to help you fix your rig if you were able and willing to drive over. My dad is very very good at troubleshooting hardware.

EDIT: Just looked up where you are. New York is a little bit far away. XD; But... perhaps we can do some troubleshooting over the phone once you get ahold of the machine again?

[Tovaxx]

You could always install server 2008 and use it as your desktop. I'm pretty sure you can even get a free "trial" direct download from the microsoft website and then hack the Software license out without downloading any scary keygens or anything like that (takes about 5 mins from what I am thinking).

Dx10 and full system control... full vista drivers support... none of the that bad vista or RC7 aftertaste... mmmmmmmm